The Parthenon's colonnade (with scaffolding) and the Erechtheion's Porch of the Caryatids on the Acropolis in Athens, with the city and coastline visible in the distance, July 2022. Photo: Markus, The Philosopher's Shirt.

Greek Philosophy Before Socrates?: Meet the Presocratics!

Written by: Caroline Black

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Published on

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Time to read 7 min

The Parthenon's colonnade (with scaffolding) and the Erechtheion's Porch of the Caryatids on the Acropolis in Athens, with the city and coastline visible in the distance, July 2022. Photo: Markus, The Philosopher's Shirt.

Questions Answered in This Blog Post

Did Western philosophy exist before Socrates?

Who were the Presocratics?

What was philosophy like prior to Socrates?

The meme to start with:

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Socrates (c. 470 – 399 BC): a name and face you can’t forget. The dude who basically invented philosophy with a few questions to some frustrated and sometimes pissed off people. He dialogued like crazy and ended up having to poison himself in punishment. What a guy!


Plato (c. 428–347 BCE) popularized Socrates in The Republic (c. 375 BC), arguably his most influential work, and certainly a foundational one for the future of Western philosophy. Socrates himself was a big name, who, while having no written work himself, was featured in the works of several other philosophers, the biggest of these being Plato. With the Socratic dialogues, Plato showed a new way to obtain (and love) knowledge that would kickstart the greater conversation in the history of philosophy.


However, philosophy in Greece did not start with Socrates or Plato. The practice of philosophy in Greece predated them both by several hundred years. It was Thales of Miletus, who predicted a solar eclipse in 585 BC, who traditionally is said to have gotten philosophy (and science) up and running in the West. Thales was not the only fascinating figure to predate Socrates and Co. 


For Thales and his buddies, philosophy was a challenge to the blind trust in myth so common for the religious Greeks at the time. Philosophers wanted to examine the world within and without, finding out how it works through study and evidence. Philosophy was a way of figuring things out through a scientific-style study, versus attributing everything to the whims of the gods.


Big Names (But Not in Philosophy)

Some of the Presocratic philosophers we might have actually heard of, we probably did not first hear of in reference to philosophy, but rather in our math class at school. Pythagoras (c. 570 – c. 495 BC), the triangle guy, was also a prominent philosopher with some very esoteric ideas and a whole cult! Known for more than his fancypants triangle theorem, Pythagoras had some interesting religious ideas, which, after his death, were absorbed into a religious practice among some. His thoughts on math and philosophy were carried on in others, without the niche religious ideas.


Similarly, you may have heard of Zeno of Elea (c. 490 – c. 430 BC) from his incredibly frustrating paradoxes that just seem like impossible to solve math problems. For instance, the problem of the two runners and who is going to get there first, that makes my brain melt, revisiting it years later. Seriously, I railed against the skies when my professor said that, according to Zeno, even a faster runner isn’t going to take over a slower runner in this race. Such anger.


Zeno is also found in some Platonic dialogues, having pleasant shouting matches with Socrates, so take that for what you will.


The Fighting Philosophers: Trad Philosophers versus Sophists

In addition to the math guys, the Presocratics were such a flourishing community that they had several schools of thought they adhered to. The trad philosophers, who were often taught by other wandering tutors, then themselves turned into wandering tutors, cared specifically about the love of knowledge/wisdom. After all, what is the word “philosophy” but a translation of “love of wisdom/knowledge” in Greek?


For trad philosophers, like Socrates himself, pursuit of the truth was more important than getting your way in an argument. Even if the truth led to something that might have been unpleasant, which Socrates learned, from being convicted of corrupting the youth in his pursuit of it. When the truth challenges the status quo, sometimes the consequences are not as pleasant.

The Milesians, like Thales, from the city of Miletus, started this practice by teaching the heck out of each other, and learning more and more. Consider it something like having a personal trainer, but for your brain and character. In fact, many of the Presocratics hobnobbed with the other Presocratics, if not nodding to the very dude who taught them. Yup, that guy over there! The one with the beard! No, the other one with the beard!


Trad philosophers would find another gang of smart people trying to get in on that sweet, sweet tutor money. The Sophists came into being later in the game, but focused, instead of a pursuit of truth or the world around them, on rhetoric and social issues. For the Sophists, how to win an argument was the proper point, rather than that the argument be good, sound, or truthful.


So, these bad boys would run around offering their self-help services to politicians and other prominent individuals, sharing how to win arguments and influence people, for better or worse. The convincing game was, for the Sophists, more interesting than pursuing some grand ideal. 


It is worth noting here, too, that none of the Presocratics’s full works survive. We are left with fragments, little bits and pieces passed on to people like Diogenes Laertius, who repeated what their forebears said. As a result, we do have some different things to contend with. Namely, how accurate the retellings are from the originals. Something to keep in mind when taking a look at these old guys.

It Gets Interesting: Heraclitus and Parmenides

As you can see above, Presocratic philosophy is not just one thing. These fellows weren’t all of one mind, weren’t all Socrates clones running around asking about the same thing. They weren’t even all doing things that would have made it into Socrates’s work at all. When you’ve got so many different philosophy buddies, it’s hard to be able to address them all!


While the fellows heretofore described definitely had their own things going on, two of the most fascinating names in Presocratic philosophy represent two sides to an intriguing problem that, in the days of inventing philosophy, was a huge issue. Are things all the same or are they in flux?


Our lives, our experiences, the birth and decay in the world around us: is it because things are constantly changing, or is it part of a bigger thing that just is


Heraclitus (fl. c. 500 BC) was one of those philosophers about whom little is known, including his birth and death date approximations. However, what we do have is one heck of some fragments of a text. A bit of a grumpy guy, Heraclitus believed that things were in a state of flux.


In contrast, Parmenides of Elea (fl. c. late sixth, early fifth century BC) was a poet. What remains of his philosophy remains in strange fragments of verse. In this poem, Parmenides tut tuts Heraclitus and proclaims that everything is one and that there is a sameness in the universe; change is illusory. 


What can we learn from both of these approaches? Let’s find out in our next two articles in this special series on the Presocratics!


I’d like to take this moment to thank my beaten Hackett book on Presocratic philosophy, A Presocratic Reader, for help with remembering some of this history.


A Message from Markus: Can You Paint an Idea?

We commissioned a painting for this series. It's by my mother-in-law, Gabriele Lauschke, and the idea came from a fairly simple question I asked her over dinner: could an idea be painted? Not a place. Not an object. An idea.


That's harder than it sounds, and not just for the obvious reasons. Gabriele's work is built on cubist compositions taken from something real: a travel photo, a film still, an actual street she stood on. There's usually a concrete reference underneath the abstraction. This time there wasn't one. No skyline to fracture, no bridge to reduce to planes and angles. Just a philosophical position and its opposite, and the challenge of putting both on one canvas without either turning into a symbol standing in for the idea rather than showing it.


She took the challenge anyway. What she came back with is a split composition: two halves, one canvas. Everything on one side is built to feel like it's in motion; nothing holds still long enough to be pinned down. Everything on the other side is the opposite: fixed, resolved, closed into a shape with no beginning or end.


We're not going to tell you which side is which yet, and if we personally side rather with one of them. But it's worth looking closely, because these are the two positions Heraclitus and Parmenides hold, the ones we're about to spend the next two articles on.


Keep it in mind for parts two and three. You'll know exactly what you're looking at by the time we're done.

Summary:

Ancient Greek philosophy predates Socrates by several hundred years.

Presocratic philosophers wanted to examine the world around them (and within), to find logical explanations for how it worked.

Presocratic philosophers are not just a monolith, but rather examined many different topics, from math to religion.

While we know some of the Presocratics, like Pythagoras, from other areas, they were known as philosophers during their time.

The Sophists used rhetoric rather than logic to "win" arguments.

A portrait of a woman in black wearing cat-eye style glasses.

C. M. Black

C. M. Black holds a B.A. in Philosophy from Wesleyan College and an M.A. in Technical and Professional Writing from Middle Georgia State University. A lifelong goth, she resides in Atlanta, Georgia, where she works as a professional writer. You can view more of her work on Substack, or follow her on Bluesky and Facebook.

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